Talk:Waikato

Disambiguation

Someone proficient at "dab" may like to note in the standard manner that "Waikato" is a river, a tribe or subtribe, a dialect, part of the names of two territorial authority districts and one regional council and probably a number of other statutory bodies, and the name of at least one chief prominent in the 19th century (currently linked to this article at "Maori language"). I don't know whether any of those need separate pages. I see "Waikato River" has one; and I wouldn't propose to merge it with this. Robin Patterson 00:47, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Waikato the region is by far the most common use of the word Waikato, so following convention it should be kept at Waikato.

Not sure about that. The most common use is probably in the weather forecasts and they use it to refer to a smaller area than the Region. Nurg 08:03, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

OK - (hmmmm, I forgot the rugby team...) Robin Patterson 07:41, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The councils aren't named just "Waikato" but have Waikato in their name so there is no need to disambiguate them. And as they are in the Waikato I don't see why they can't be mentioned in this article.

OK Robin Patterson 07:41, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The chief can have his own article with link to it from this article. I'm not aware of a Waikato dialect, I did a quick search and couldn't find anything about a dialect called Waikato. I'm not sure about Waikato tribe, how does it differ from Tainui? -- Popsracer 11:48, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

My 1894 grammar book includes "Waikato" in its list of 7 dialects. The Reed Pocket dictionary map shows a "Waikato" tribe. Robin Patterson 07:41, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I was rather hoping to distinguish Waikato Region from Waikato District, so that we will end up with a separate article for each local government unit.

They are quite different entities so that's perfectly fine. Nurg 08:03, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I imagine people will want to put facts and figures in these geographical articles and it helps to have the extent of the area well defined. We already have joint articles for territorial authorities that share the name of their main town ("Auckland", "Whangarei", "Gisborne"). That's mainly because people often don't make the distinction between a city and its local government unit, so it's almost as confusing to separate them as it is to keep them in one article.

Actually I've been thinking it might be better to use "X District" for all the districts that don't share an article with their main town. So you'd have "Mackenzie District", "Waikato District" and "Kapiti Coast District", but "Gore", "Waimate" (and "Marlborough" because it's a region as well as a district).

If we did this we could have a page for "Waikato" and a page for "Waikato District". How would that strike you?

Yes, not forgetting "South Waikato District". But I've already distinguished Porirua from its city council and have more to add to each page. So be warned - remember the 32kB limit! Robin Patterson 07:41, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

It would be a lot of work, but it's better done before most of the pages get fleshed out. I could dedicate a night to it (and create stubs for the territorial authorities that haven't got them). I've found a free source for boundary maps so we can have maps on each article too.

Maybe we should discuss this all on the project page Wikipedia:WikiProject New Zealand places and come up with an agreed list of territorial authority/regional article names, and then go forth and conquer.

Ben Arnold 23:29, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

In principle I agree with most of what Ben says (as usual). Robin Patterson 07:41, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I did a little work on this article and found myself referring to "true Waikato". I see absolutely no problem with anyone creating an article on the traditional Waikato area (in addition to Waikato Region and Waikato District articles) being, I suggest, the area south of Auckland Region, south and west of Hauraki Plains, west of Kaimais and Mamakus and north of Central Plateau and King Country, regardless of whether this trad Waikato has any current official status or agreed precise boundaries. Similarly there will one day be an article on King Country, an historically significant area. The only issue will be that this existing article will probably have to be renamed Waikato Region, leaving "Waikato" for the trad area. Nurg 08:03, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

"Mooloo"

I'm getting fed up with having to continually revert assertions by a couple of anons that the term "Mooloo" started thanks to a variation of the "Ole ole" soccer chant being used for the Waikato Rugby team. Since the soccer chant started after the 1982 World Cup in Spain, and the word Mooloo's been around for at least 50 years, I find this patently ridiculous. if anyone has information to the contrary, though, I'd be happy to listen. I'd also be happy if others would keep an eye on this problem on the page... Grutness...wha? 07:18, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Territorial authorities

Some wikiholic really should give this article a list of the districts that are wholly or partly in the region. I think there are ten. It was annoying to come here expecting to get a quick link to one and not find it. Robin Patterson 05:43, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was moved to Waikato. GrooveDog (talk) (Review) 20:30, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

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Waikato (region/district) → Waikato — Waikato is the common name for this region, which is the primary meaning of the term. Waikato already redirects here. Right now, there's a very confusing title for this page, which is unnecessary disambiguation. YeshuaDavid • Talk • 00:40, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

• Comment what about Waikato District or Waikato Plains or Waikato River or Port Waikato or Waikato tribe ? 70.29.208.69 (talk) 05:39, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

The reigion encompasses the district, plains and river, and if a user on Wikipedia wanted to find information about any of three then he or she would most likely type in "Waikato River", "Port Waikato" and "Waikato District". Waikato is the only one known solely by that name, and so does not need the disambiguation. The tribe you mentioned are mostly known as the Tainui, and a hatnote could be placed to direct users there. YeshuaDavid • Talk • 17:39, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

It might be better to use {{otheruses4|the region}}, which gives: This article is about the region. For other uses, see Waikato (disambiguation). – Liveste (talk • edits) 02:57, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, actually I'd agree with that. YeshuaDavid • Talk • 18:36, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

• Support the move. Since Waikato has been a redirect to this article since May 2007 without any problems, it would appear to be accepted that this is the primary use of the name. Following the move, the section "Different definitions" can be removed, with the possible exception of "The Waikato region (general use of term)", which needs to be sourced and perhaps moved into the lede.-gadfium 01:33, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
• Support move over redirect to Waikato, I think it is the primary topic. The current title is used only to dab so is not necessary. XLerate (talk) 02:12, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
• Support. "Waikato" most commonly refers to the region, and usually as a stand-alone word; a separate article already exists for "Waikato District". – Liveste (talk • edits) 02:57, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
• Support. The current name is just plain wrong, because the district is at Waikato District. This seems to be the primary topic. Jafeluv (talk) 08:02, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

• Oppose move as proposed. It appears this article should be moved to Waikato (New Zealand) or Waikato (region), and Waikato (disambiguation) should be moved here, to disambiguate between the region and the district (among other Wikipedia entries). --Una Smith (talk) 17:36, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

"Waikato (New Zealand)" would be pretty meaningless, given that every article relates to New Zealand. "Waikato (region/district)" would be a very unusual and unlikely target for a disambiguation page, if that's what your suggesting. YeshuaDavid • Talk • 18:33, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, "region/district" is inaccurate. Usage of "Waikato" on Wikipedia suggests Waikato region would meet the principle of least astonishment. --Una Smith (talk) 20:02, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

This article could be titled "Waikato (region)", which would be an improvement on the current title. But given that Waikato already redirects here (as it has since 2007), and that this article is the only one known just as Waikato, using disambiguation isn't needed. A hatnote to a disambiguation page would help users find the article they're looking for, if it isn't this one. YeshuaDavid • Talk • 20:07, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

It looks like formerly this article, and some others about NZ regions, covered both the region and the district of the same name. See for example the lead of the article Southland Region. I note also Auckland Region, Northland Region, and Wellington Region. Waikato has been a redirect for a long time, but how is that relevant? Also, the region is not the only topic called "just Waikato"; there is also Waikato (iwi) and Waikato (New Zealand electorate). --Una Smith (talk) 20:16, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

So I see, there's quite a bit in this article about the district, which presumably comes from before they were split. Hmm, think you've got a point, changing the request to Waikato Region. YeshuaDavid • Talk • 20:33, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

If there's anything in the article purely about the district from before a split, it should just be moved to Waikato District. Station1 (talk) 20:02, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Okay. Waikato (region/district) until now was in effect a disambiguation page. I have removed some content to Waikato District and Waikato Region; what remains is content about yet another topic, a "Waikato" area that lies within Waikato Region and does not correspond to Waikato District.

I think your creation of Waikato Region was premature, and it would have been better to wait until this discussion had concluded. Do you intend to provide sources for the remainder of this article? In particular, we need a source which explains that the Waikato area excludes certain parts of the Waikato Region. Without such a source, the article is likely to be nominated for deletion, with any valid content moving to the region article.-gadfium 23:39, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Waikato (region/district) said that before I edited it. My question is: does this Waikato area/province/region (not Region) correspond to Waikato District plus Hamilton City, or is it something else? --Una Smith (talk) 00:05, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I found the answer. Waikato Region dates from 1989, and is an environmental resource management district (water management district), not a political entity akin to a state or province. In contrast, "Waikato" often refers only to those parts of the Waikato River drainage that were settled by the Waikato (iwi) for centuries before European colonization. Thus, incoming links to Waikato and to Waikato (region/district) desperately need to be disambiguated, preferably by someone with knowledge of the history of the area. I recommend moving Waikato (region/district) to Waikato (area) (or similar), and moving Waikato (disambiguation) to Waikato so that future incoming links can be disambiguated more efficiently and promptly. --Una Smith (talk) 02:25, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

The article Invasion of Waikato treats "the Waikato" (the remnant content of this article) as an alternate name for the King Country. --Una Smith (talk) 15:18, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Una Smith, you are content forking without consensus, I think the split is counterproductive.

The title "Region" is not normally appended per common names, for example Hawke's Bay, Otago etc. Exceptions to the rule are Northland, Southland which are generic per those dab pages, Auckland and Wellington have cities as the primary topic. XLerate (talk) 03:20, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

• Support, as apparent consensus on primary topic since the base name was redirected two years ago. -- JHunterJ (talk) 23:58, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

• Support then, if editors think this proposal is the best. YeshuaDavid • Talk • 19:10, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

• Support. This appears to be the primary use of "Waikato". Station1 (talk) 20:02, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

• Support. The region is the primary topic of Waikato as far as I am concerned, the others are areas in Waikato. Mattlore (talk) 02:36, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move, part 2

Waikato (region/district) → Waikato Region — Originally requested that this page be moved to just "Waikato", but, after arguments made on the prevuious request, and shifting about the internet a bit, I think the term is too ambiguous. "Waikato Region" is used on Waikato's tourist website here, and seems to be fairly common. The current page dates from when the Waikato District was included in the article. YeshuaDavid • Talk • 20:33, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Comment - Sorry to add a new twist, but Waikato (region/district) says there are actually two Waikato regions: the government region, and the cultural (geographic?) region. Would it be workable, to have Waikato Region (meaning the government region) and Waikato region? What is the local name of this other region? --Una Smith (talk) 20:38, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Moving to Waikato Region would be an improvement on the current name, but I still believe a move to "Waikato" is more appropriate, as per the previous move request, which got several supporting comments. The name Waikato is most commonly used to mean the geographic region, which is more or less the same thing as the government region. The difference between these two concepts is small enough to be explained within the article. I doubt that there is any formal definition of the geographical region as distinct from the government region. When people casually refer to "The Waikato" they may not be including the Coromandel Peninsula or the northern part of the Taupo District, but it might be difficult to find a citation saying that.-gadfium 20:49, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Erm, maybe go back to the move to "Waikato"? Hadn't realised the term was so ambiguous, anyone got a better propsal? YeshuaDavid • Talk • 20:52, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

I think you should unarchive the earlier suggested move, and see what further comment you get. You can ask at WP:NZWNB for more input from New Zealanders.-gadfium 20:56, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Is the distinction between the two regions really not signficant? Didn't the cultural region exist hundreds or thousands of years before the government region? --Una Smith (talk) 01:39, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

The Waikato (iwi) - which I assume you mean by the "cultural region" - arrived in the geographic region no more than 700 years ago. Thousands of years is not an appropriate term for human population of NZ. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:16, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Waikato (iwi) is the tribe, not the place. --Una Smith (talk) 17:25, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, the iwi is the iwi. However, the place is named by and for the iwi. This means that the Waikato as a "cultural region" hasn't existed for more than 700 years. The geological/geographical region is somewhat older! Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:39, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Requested move, part 3

Waikato (region/district) → ? — Unarchived first part of this debate and changed requested move target to "?", to reflect the uncertainty of what to call this article. YeshuaDavid • Talk • 23:33, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

Please cancel this and restore the original move request Waikato (region/district) → Waikato, which you can see had 5 to 1 support. XLerate (talk) 01:47, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

I moved the tag back. Let's not change the proposal when the discussion is still ongoing, ok? Jafeluv (talk) 06:08, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

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It appears that we have consensus to move this article to "Waikato", with dissent from Una Smith. This discussion has been advertised at WP:RM, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject New Zealand and WP:NZWNB, so I think we've got all the opinions we're likely to.

The fork of part of the article to Waikato Region during the debate, while in good faith, was not helpful. Unless I hear good reasons to the contrary in the next 24 hours, I propose to move this article to Waikato and merge the contents of Waikato Region back into it. The latter article will become a redirect.-gadfium 20:42, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Should Waikato (iwi) also be merged back into Tainui, or does that split make sense? Station1 (talk) 23:33, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

I don't know. I wasn't planning on getting involved with that split. Any concerns should be discussed at Talk:Tainui.-gadfium 23:43, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Lonely Planet Reference

I query the use of the lonely planet reference (currently [4]). This is a tourist book not a reliable source for Wikipedia. I am happy to have another more reputable reference in its place. Comments before it is removed? Mari370 (talk) 13:00, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Correcting disambiguation

My apologies if I have stepped on anyones toes. Just edited part of the article to make it regionally focused. Some of the content seemed to confuse the current Waikato Region (as enacted by the Local Government Act 1989) with a more historic, generic and inconsistent understanding of Waikato. Mari370 (talk) 13:13, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Also corrected the changes from the Auckland City restructuring that dissolved the Franklin District. Mari370 (talk) 13:13, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

The Waikato (not the Region)

I see people got themselves into a bit of a knot on this page two years ago. Pity I wasn't watching at the time. Never mind. Back to my comments above of 15 Oct 2004. I suggested this article would have to be renamed Waikato Region, and that's been done. The way is open to create a new article about the Waikato itself, the area covered by Te Ara at http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/waikato. It clearly distinguishes between the Waikato and the Waikato regional council area at http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/waikato-region/1. And there's a useful map of the Waikato at http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/waikato-places. The best name for the article is Waikato. Nurg (talk) 06:36, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Northland Region which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 22:59, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 2

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 17:05, 22 April 2014 (UTC)

Waikato Region → Waikato – The actual name of the region does not include "Region", it is just "Waikato". (On the other hand, it is possible to find some sources, even governmental ones, that do include the capitalized "Region", but I believe they are in a distinct minority.) Waikato already redirects here and is the primary meaning of the word (the other meanings are already at Waikato (disambiguation)). The article was renamed "Waikato" via a 2009 discussion, but it was later moved without a discussion on this page. Good Ol’factory ^(talk) 03:21, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

• Support. The capitalised "Region" is redundant. The article also includes a disambig link at the top which directs readers to other uses of the word "Waikato". BlackCab (talk) 03:40, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

• Support. The capitalisation of "Region" is unnecessary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ollieinc (talk • contribs) 05:30, 15 April 2014‎
• Oppose move to Waikato. It is not correct that the regional council area is the primary meaning of the word Waikato. To quote Te Ara, "The Waikato region encompasses the Waikato, Matamata–Piako, Waipā and South Waikato districts, and Hamilton city. This is smaller than the Waikato regional council area, which extends to the King Country, Taupō, Hauraki and the Coromandel Peninsula, and parts of Rotorua district." http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/waikato-region/page-1. This fact is reflected in the first 3 paragraphs of the WP article, each of which distinguishes between "the Waikato" and the local govt region that is the subject of the article. This primary meaning of the word is indicated by an entry at Waikato (disambiguation) that reads "Waikato, area subjected to the 1860s Invasion of the Waikato". I think we should probably have a new article about the Waikato itself (the 4 districts and Hamilton, as Te Ara defines the Waikato), with the article title "Waikato". See also my comments along this line made above in 2011 and 15 Oct 2004. On this basis, if Waikato Region is to be moved, it should not be to "Waikato". Waikato (regional council area) is technically correct. Waikato (region) is ambiguous (refer to the Te Ara quote above). Any other suggestions? Nurg (talk) 03:51, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

• Support move and possible eventual split into articles about the area in general and the Region based on the content of the article at time of writing. I see the article has been touched by the hand of Claudia and in consequence is very much weighed down by dubious commentary about the New Zealand Wars of the 19th century. That is more relevant to the Waikato as a whole than the Waikato District. If the Waikato Region is notable of itself a new article about the local government area can be created. Daveosaurus (talk) 05:50, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Pronunciation

Does anyone have a reference to a dictionary listing /ˈwaɪkɑːtɔː/ as an accepted / common pronunciation? Never heard it before. Abgar eabe ghu (talk) 03:46, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

TE WARU

The article mentions: ...Chief Te Whero whero did not sign... is it possible the name should be TE WARU as on the picture published in The New Zealanders Illustrated by George French Angas? Thank you for your time. Lotje (talk) 15:33, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Notable people

What should be the criteria for being in this list, rather than in the articles for individual locations? For example, should the Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition be in?

Notable people are treated differently in articles on other regions. Most (Auckland, Bay of Plenty, Gisborne, Hawke's Bay, Manawatū-Whanganui, Wellington, Tasman, Marlborough, West Coast, Canterbury, Otago, Southland) have nothing. Northland, Taranaki and Nelson have a category. So I'd prefer to follow the majority and delete this section, though moving any not covered elsewhere to the relevant location. What do you think? Johnragla (talk) 17:54, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

I agree. It may be of interest that Bruce McLaren lived in some particular town in the Waikato, but not knowing whether it was Tuakau, Turangi or one of a hundred other places in a vast region is not much use. (I wonder where in the Waikato McLaren did live.) Nurg (talk) 05:58, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Otago which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 00:48, 15 March 2022 (UTC)