Talk:Saigō Takamori

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Saigo Takamori is one of the most interesting samuarais. He stands out head and shoulders(literally) above the others.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Twoplus2 (talk • contribs) 21:51, 14 November 2003.

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Hmm... some confusion about the kanji for his name. The wiki and other sources indicate (西郷 隆盛), but a book I have here labels his picture as (西郷南洲). Can anyone shed some light on this?

Magus 03:35, Apr 27, 2004 (UTC)

Takamori (隆盛) is his real or formal name (Actually it was his father's). Nanshu (南洲) is his pseudonym. Hans castorp81 15:00, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Samurai tended to have multiple names throughout their lives. In the 1860's and 1870's, his friends (Okubo, his brother, etc) tended to call him Kichinosuke (or something similar).

This phrase caught my eye: "The imperial palace had recruited new guards who were nothing more than glorified rice peasants and armed them with modern weapons."

Isn't there a way to say this that isn't so strident? After all, Japan was just doing what other industrialized societies (i.e. Europeans) had done centuries earlier: taking the sword (literally and figuratively) out of the hands of an elite warrior class and putting it into the hands of a conscript army drawn from the masses. I don't think the current phrasing rises to an NPOV issue, but it does sound like an editorial swipe at the modernization of Japan as typified by its army. Don't get me wrong, there's plenty of room for that, but not until the 1920's. --Monupics 19:43, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

My thoughts exactly, the tone of the article snaps at that point. I think it deserves a small revision.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.249.81.172 (talk • contribs) 07:36, 2 August 2005.

This has been rectified. --MChew 02:41, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

EE

I am currently writing an Extended Essay on Saigo Takamori, dealing mainly in the historiographical debate, and although mostly accurate, the article includes little of that sort. This could be misleading, as the orthrodox and revisionist views on Saigo, as well as his image in popular culture contrast a lot. I'm unclear whether such debates such as the significance of his role in the actual rebellion, his motivation in the Korean expedition and the real reason he was ousted from the goverment, etc should be included, but at the very least I think titles with contrasting views should be mentioned in a "See also" or "Related" section. Tamamuro, for example, asserts that he planned the overthrow of the Meiji goverment as soon as his resignation, Pyle calls it "high dudgeon", while Yates and other revisionists tend to view him as content with what has happened, planning to live in retirement. Due to the support for the claims, and perhaps the lack thereof for the others, as the orthrodox view tends to see it as granted, and Pyle doesn't really invest much time on Saigo (measley 2 pages), I find the latter-most most persuasive. Nonetheless, I think it's important to note this, but putting my essay up isn't going to work, it being quite biased, nor do I know how much is enough, since it would be out of proportion if I state every point, and there are quite a few on several aspects of his life. In fact, Man Behind the Myth questions the very validity of his image in popular culture and history in general, so there is actually quite a debate. I don't really edit wikipedia, can anyone else help with it?

Mark Ravina's book is already up, but there's also Saigo Takamori: Man Behind the Myth, Saigo Takamori by Inoue Kiyoshi, and Kagoshima Kenshi for the histriography.-RoSeeker 12:14, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

The Death of Saigo

I don't have time to edit right now, but this article could benefit from the research done by Mark Ravina for his book "The Last Samurai". Saigo's head was indeed found and brought to the government forces the following morning. Ravina describes the most likely scenario of Saigo's death: Saigo was sent into shock and lost consciousness as a result of the bullet that travelled through his abdomen and hip. The motivation of his deputies for cutting off his head was in order to continue the battle. As long as the government forces did not have Saigo's head, they could not definitively say he was dead. And possession of the head by at least one of the deputies encouraged the surviving Satsuma soldiers to fight on. In the end, all were killed. Saigo's main deputies were Beppu, Kirino, and Murata. They were actually the prosecutors of the Satsuma Rebellion, with Saigo as the titular head.　　Westwind273 (talk) 05:07, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Birth date

According to Japanese Wiki page, Saigo Takamor was born on lunar calendar December 7, the 10th year of Bunsei era (23 January, 1828).

Before my edit today, the birth data of his was shown as "23 Jan 1827/28" here. The reason it was "1827/28" was that the 10th year of Bunsei era was actually from the Feb of 1827 to Feb of 1828, and the original author Everyking, who made that editing on 4/24/2004, was not sure which day his birthday was, so put 1827/28 there, and it has been like that for more than 3 years. In the first paragraph, which was more interesting, it said that he was born on "Feb 7, 1827". That "Feb 7" (2/7) was obviously mistaken from "December 7" (12/7), the lunar calendar date.

There is no dispute of Saigo Takamori's birthday. The only confusion was caused by lunar calendar.

--Mongol (talk) 05:17, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

No photographs

It's probably worth noting that (according to Alan Booth) there are no photographs of Saigo known; he even purposely skipped cabinet portraits. Jpatokal (talk) 07:03, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Death section

Ravina, Mark J. “The Apocryphal Suicide of Saigō Takamori: Samurai, Seppuku, and the Politics of Legend.” Journal of Asian Studies 69.3 (2010): 691-721. Print.

Yates, Charles L. "Saigō Takamori in the Emergence of Meiji Japan." Modern Asian Studies 28.3 (1994): 449-474. Print.

Tentative bibliography to be used to create a new section concerning Saigō Takamori's death. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dkindley (talk • contribs) 00:25, 12 March 2018 (UTC)