Talk:Dude Ranch (album)

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Dude Ranch (album) has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
January 4, 2013	Good article nominee	Listed

Albums

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Punk music (inactive)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Punk music, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.Punk musicWikipedia:WikiProject Punk musicTemplate:WikiProject Punk musicPunk music articles

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Comment

Wiki may need an article about actual Dude Ranches... I wonder what that would do to the current page with that name? Krupo 22:19, Jun 27, 2004 (UTC)

Shouldn't make a difference, because, technically, that would be at Dude ranch. Rick K 22:21, Jun 27, 2004 (UTC)

Ah, makes sense - very good. :) Krupo 02:38, Jun 29, 2004 (UTC)

Songs w/o links

There are some songs on this album that have their own Wiki pages, such as Enthused and Voyeur, so why arent there any links to them from the main album? A Jorb Well Done 08:33, 7 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Second album - not third

Dude Ranch is the second studio album, not the third. Cheshire Cat was the first studio album. Buddha was a demo album. Stop changing it! Nouse4aname (talk) 13:57, 25 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pink Floyd Similarity/Derivation?

The cover of Dude Ranch looks very similar to the cover of the 1970 Pink Floyd album Atom Heart Mother. Was that intentional, or is it just a coincidence? The article does not say. -Mr. Mantis (talk) 21:33, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I came here wondering the same thing. --LibreLearner (talk) 05:09, 26 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Dude Ranch (album)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Basilisk4u (talk · contribs) 18:37, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This album got me through middle school, so I will review this article. Cheers! Basilisk4u (talk) 18:37, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Notes

Sorry this is taking so long :( My first impression is that the article is quite interesting and well-written, but I will get into a more detailed review quite soon. In the meantime, I feel the article could benefit from a free-use photo from Wikimedia Commons because it currently looks a bit barren. Perhaps a photo of someone who worked on the album or a musical influence for the band? Basilisk4u (talk) 02:28, 3 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lead

"plagued with difficulties only made worse by the quick schedule" For some reason, I feel that "rushed" would be better to use here than "quick"
The third paragraph uses words like "success" and "hit" without being specific. Add information about how high the album and singles charted instead.

Background

"The band had accumulated a genuine buzz" Where was this buzz accumulating? It sounds a bit abrupt right after the mentioning of the band not being taken seriously by the label.
"took serious looks at Interscope, Epitaph, and MCA Records" maybe "seriously considered"?
"MCA did not intervene much in the band's activities" --> "MCA rarely intervened in the band's activities"
"The two young musicians were at a creative peak" This seems a bit non-neutral for an encyclopedia article. According to whom were they at a creative peak?

Recording and production

The first paragraph uses the phrase "the band" a lot. Consider replacing it with "the group" occasionally.
"DeLonge was having vocal problems and spent much time recording and re-recording vocal tracks, and Hoppus realized he too was having vocal problems after losing his voice during a one-off Christmas concert." Perhaps instead of the second mention of "vocal problems", "difficulty singing" could be used instead?

Music and packaging

This section could use a music sample, consider moving the sample of "Emo" to this section.
On the same note, the description of the song has a great quote from Rolling Stone, but it does not say very much about the sound of the song itself or why a sample is needed. It would be good to add more about the song's musical style in the description.
"kicked out of Poway High School for showing up to a basketball game drunk" --> "kicked out of Poway High School for showing up to a basketball game while intoxicated"
"The original Star Wars trilogy were popular during Hoppus' childhood into the late 1970s and early 1980s, and reflected a new interest in the late 1990s when the series was re-released in theaters." --> "The original Star Wars trilogy were popular during Hoppus' childhood into the late 1970s and early 1980s, and a theater re-release in the late 1990s reinvigorated interest in the series."
"DeLonge recalled in 2012 that the only thing "bad" about Dude Ranch" --> "DeLonge recalled in 2012 that the only "bad" aspect about Dude Ranch"

Release

"Although it didn't have the impact of "Dammit", it hardly mattered as the former was still receiving heavy play on radio and TV stations across the nation." It "hardly mattered" to who? I think it would be better to use a direct quote here.
"Unreleased Dude Ranch cut "I Won't Be Home for Christmas"" Begin the sentence with "The unreleased Dude Ranch cut" Also, "[[I Won't ]Be Home for Christmas]]" should be unlinked here as it is linked earlier in the article.

Reception

This section could use a table of the critical review scores, like the one in Enema of the State

Touring

"the trio grew tired of other commitments: interviews and TV appearances due to the success of "Dammit (Growing Up)"." --> "the trio grew tired of other commitments including interviews and TV appearances due to the success of "Dammit (Growing Up)"."
"Barker famously learned the drum tracks for the band's set in only 45 minutes prior to his first show" "famously" sounds a bit like an opinion. Is there a quote about this?
"Following a largely successful Australian tour in the spring, Hoppus and DeLonge presented an ultimatum: quit drinking or go to an in-patient rehab, which Raynor agreed to." To which of these did he agree? Also, reword "which Raynor agreed to" to "to which Raynor agreed".

On hold

I have placed the review on hold now for these small concerns to be addressed. This was a very interesting article and I greatly enjoyed reading it. Good luck! Basilisk4u (talk) 19:23, 4 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Genre

A user came and replaced skate punk and punk rock with pop punk. However, skate punk and punk rock were sourced reliably a long time ago. And even this source for punk [1] if you read the quote it says:

And skate punk was sourced: Bogdanov, Vladimir (April 1, 2002). All Music Guide to Rock: The Definitive Guide to Rock, Pop, and Soul. Backbeat Books. p. 111. ISBN 978-0879306533. The consensus was made long ago and has been like that since then for months. But pop punk was poorly sourced and one source isn't enough since as well at least two sources make verification unless you made a really good source.

2601:A:4100:5A:2882:BFE1:1FED:C2E4 (talk) 01:20, 31 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Stop reverting back to the poorly sourced version of the article's infobox genres. Not a reliable source (user-submitted reviews should not be used), says "Songs featured on Dude Ranch have a more punk rock flair to them" (hardly defining the album as "punk rock"; "flair" is flimsy, as is "songs featured"), and this Allmusic book source does not mention anything about "skate punk", so how can you say it is cited? It does however support my revision, so unless you have a better source, please refrain from genre warring. Dan56 (talk) 01:20, 31 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Elongated IP user insists on using questionable, out-of-context sources to support his/her opinion of this album's genre (nothing in this source citing "punk rock" as the genre). Clearly reaching to support his/her own opinion, as evinced by this edit to ¡Tré!. Discussing it could be a possible cure for his/her genre warring, but they dont respond. Oh well, I hope someone else does. Dan56 (talk) 02:10, 31 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This doesn't warrant any war, because it really doesn't matter that much. It's incredibly insignificant in the scope of the article. Sure, Dude Ranch is pretty clearly skate punk at its apex, the height of its popularity. But that pretty much coalesced with pop punk anyway. I was the one who initially sourced "skate punk" to that AllMusic book, and looking at it now, it was clearly an oversight on my part - skate punk is mentioned, but is said in regard to Cheshire Cat. Sooner or later we'll find a legit source that describes Dude Ranch as skate punk and then we can re-incorporate it back into the article. But for now, pop punk is sufficient. And no one needs to even be adding punk rock. Thardin12 (talk) 05:38, 31 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I found a source in the body for punk so I added it. And many ip keep removing the genre so I added punk to set a consensus. It's sourced so why remove it? There's only one source for pop punk — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.227.134.66 (talk) 00:21, 26 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see any mention of "Dude Ranch" in the source you cited, which is an interview of a band member. Interpretations of works (i.e. genres) should be by professional critiques (WP:SUBJECTIVE). Dan56 (talk) 00:36, 26 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Garage punk

I'm going to lean towards WP:UNDUE on garage punk in this article. I understand that it's cited, but I believe it's misappropriated. In the book "The A to X of Alternative Music", when writing about Rocket from the Crypt with their "garage punk ethos" and state that groups like "http://books.google.ca/books?id=5CrUGq8t77kC&pg=PA26&dq=garage+punk+blink+182&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xYFMUdyWGYqU2QXH1oCQDg&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=garage%20punk%20blink%20182&f=false blink 182 and sum-41" don't have the R&B-core like this group does. In the book "Punks: A Guide to an American Subculture" the author describes the sound of "blink-182, sum-41, and Good Charlotte" as punk-pop. Allmusic describes the sound as "follow in the same path as their first two, turning out 15 tracks of juvenile, adrenaline-fueled punk-pop.". Even the Rolling Stone article refers to the album as "the moment the trio focused and refined their pop punk sound". In general, the album has several references to it as being part of the punk-pop style, and only that one off one for garage punk, which would make it fail WP:UNDUE. Andrzejbanas (talk) 16:20, 22 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That's fair. Agree. Dan56 (talk) 22:26, 22 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Punk rock

Where is the source for Punk rock in the article? Andrzejbanas (talk) 00:39, 15 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Total Guitar called it "a genuine modern punk classic.", while Billboard stated ""a collection of machine-gun-quick, energetic punk songs". So, it's cited twice. Punk is short for punk rock. Kokoro20 (talk) 01:11, 15 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Song titles

I have posed questions about the article titles for two of this album's songs at their respective talk pages. Please see Talk:Dammit (Growing Up)#Article title and Talk:Josie (Everything's Gonna Be Fine)#Article title and comment if interested. Thank you. --IllaZilla (talk) 19:40, 28 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Overall Flow

This page reads incredibly poorly. Several breaks for useless quotes, hearsay, the narrative in background is unnecessarily long and should be linked to the band's main page. The Touring section drags the story on vaguely, not simply getting to the point that their original drummer was an alcoholic and argumentative. Anyone up for the task of editing this down? Thanatossassin (talk) 16:12, 26 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]