Talk:Mamayev Kurgan

A Kurgan is often an artificial hill, raised as a burial mound. Is this a true kurgan, or does the word mean a natural hill as well? Wetman 20:32, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

It is true that usually a Kurgan is an artificial burial mound. This hill is however natural, named after Mamay as he is believed to have had a stronghold on that height in the 14th century. --Kolt 20:46, 5 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Katzner's dictionary translates Russian курган simply as "burial mound". It certainly doesn't have any other sense in English that I am aware of. I suspect that the site is called kurgan to evoke the idea of a grave although it is not technically one. —Tkinias 00:50, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Although the hill became a mass grave during the battle of Stalingrad, it was called Kurgan already before that. --Kolt 08:58, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Interesting. Is this a common (or at least not unique) use of kurgan in that part of Russia? Or was it just an "honorary" kurgan for Mamai? —Tkinias 03:13, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Perhaps the hill just looked artificial in the otherwise rather flat landscape of the lower Volga. Furthermore, "kurgan" is a word of Turk origin, and it probably just sounded better in combination with the Tatar name Mamay. But anyway, Mamay himself is definitely not buried there, it is just assumed that he had a camp, possibly a guarded watch post on that hill. There are, by the way, theories stating that the hill is not named after the famous Khan at all. One theory states that "Mamay" simply means "hill" in the Turk language; according to another theory, "Mamay" is an old Russian term for Mongol-Tatars in general, so that the hill's name would actually mean "Tatars' Hill." --Kolt 10:27, 7 Apr 2004 (UTC)

What puzzles me is, the name actually translates to "tumulus of Mamays" (plural). "Tumulus of Mamay" would be "mamaya kurgan" (or more typically "kurgan mamaya"). Based strictly on that I would lean toward an origin based on a generic name rather than that of a specific person. On the other hand, I'm not a native RUssian speaker so I may be missing something. The Russian article states the name came from the Khan Mamay. Gr8white (talk) 20:16, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Tallest statue?

It seems like there's a qualifier missing in the statement that "The Motherland Calls" was the tallest statue in the world when it was erected. The Statue of Liberty is considerably taller; 93 meters versus 85. Maybe it was the tallest statue made out of that material? Or maybe the highest-reaching statue, because of the hill? (The latter seems silly, like a kid standing on a chair and saying he's taller, so that's probably not it.) Does anyone know what the qualifier should be here? It should be included. Kafziel 15:29, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, half of the height of the statue of liberty comes from its pedestal (both statue and pedestal are roughly 50 meters high). This one here is all statue and 85 meters high. Depends on how you measure, I guess. Peter S. 23:42, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Then again, Mauna Kea is higher than Mount Everest; it's just that Everest's base is higher, while the other is mainly below the ocean. · AO ^Talk 16:18, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

The Guiness Book Of World Records (1988) lists it as the world's tallest free-standing statue. I added a citation for the "world's largest sculpture" statement (though it is from a 2007 publication and I'm not 100% certain the source wasn't Wikipedia!) That source actually says "largest statue", not "sculpture" but since I have no evidence there is a larger sculpture that isn't a statue I'll leave it as is. Gr8white (talk) 22:27, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Name Question

Question about the line "The monument, designed by Yevgeny Vuchetich, has the full name "The Motherland Calls!" (Rodina Mat' Zovyot!)." Isn't this redundant, since "rodina" is motherland and "mat" is mother? Kari marie 17:03, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, in Russian it's not redundant, because even though "rodina" is often rendered in English as "motherland", it doesn't explicitly invoke the word "mother". The phrase in Russian clearly implies a personification, which "Rodina mat'" by itself wouldn't. That's why sometimes the name is rendered as "Mother Motherland Calls" which more accurately reflects the original even though it grates on the English speaker's ear. My own preference would be something like "Mother Country Calls" (but of course for the article we need to stick with conventional names). Gr8white (talk) 17:09, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Removed trivia from mainspace

In the Activision PS2and Xbox game Call of Duty: Finest Hour, Mamayev Kurgan is featured in the Soviet Campaign in Stalingrad, when in Level 2, The Flag must Fall, the character must fight his way up the hill to take a German occupied bunker on the top of the hill, eliminating pockets of resistance and taking pillboxes on the way.

Photos

I have several photos of Mamayev Kurgan and other Volgograd sites. If anyone thinks any of them would be useful for this article or any others I'd be happy to upload and license them. [1] Gr8white (talk) 20:38, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Deletion notice

A very similar image to the lead of this article has been nominated for deletion on Commons, on the basis that the statue is copyrighted and there is no acceptable freedom of panorama in Russia; see Commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Rodina mat zovet.jpg. If deleted, it is likely that the lead image of this article will also be deleted; it may however be re-uploaded here at a lower resolution under fair use. Dcoetzee 07:50, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Stainless steel sword?

I visited Mamayev kurgan this week and the sword appears to be made of concrete just like the rest of the statue. I suppose there is a remote chance that the stainless steel's patina has come to resemble that of old concrete, but it looks very much like the rest of the structure, including the texture. Perhaps the steel reinforcing in the sword was made of stainless? Are there any citations to support the case that the sword is made of stainless steel? In any case the sword is an impressive engineering feat. 85.173.79.192 (talk) 12:56, 14 August 2011 (UTC)David