Talk:Freeza Saga

Frieza vs. Freeza?

When dealing with the anime, the FUNimation spelling should be "Frieza Saga" as this article was before. However, we have already adopted the name "Freeza" for the spelling we use for the name of the character and it does not make sense to have them spelled differently. Of course, the term "Freeza Saga" does not just apply to the anime, so the manga spelling is okay. This is tricky, but I'm leaning towards consistency. We could go the other way and rename them both to "Frieza", but that breaks the almost consistency we have with using the manga names for the characters. Any thoughts? JRP 01:21, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I vote for consistency with the manga names (although I havn't read any of the manga), as they are the original. So I believe Freeza is the better (and more consistent) choice. BCKILLa 08:26, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I have modified all instances of Frieza to Freeza except in the chapter list. -- ReyBrujo 02:53, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I've read the original DBZ manga and seen the name Freeza, so I vote for consistency with the manga names too. People should respect Toriyama and give the names that are rightfully deserved. Same with Gurd, Reacoom, Butta, Jheese & Commander Ginyu. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Super Vegetto (talk • contribs) 12:31, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Jumped the Shark?

I'm a little offended at the suggestion that all episodes after the Frieza saga have jumped the shark. This phrase basically states that the Cell and Buu Sagas were "passed their peak" and has "lost the charm of the earlier episodes." This is entirely PoV as I, and many others believe that the later sags were just as good if not better than the earlier ones. Do you think this section should be removed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.39.167.126 (talk • contribs)

Feel free to either cite a source for the paragraph, or delete it. -- ReyBrujo 02:53, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I removed the comment, it was complete pov. I've never heard anyone say that the show "jumped the shark" following the events on Freeza (on the contrary, Goku's first-time SSJ transformation is one of the most popular moments in the show.) --GeneralDuke 02:46, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

This is just rubbish. Yes, I admit, the stand-offs were a waste of time and it took Piccolo and Freeza, like, 2 minutes just to get fighting. But "jumped the shark". The Cell Saga had one of the best fights, as well as the Majin Boo Saga. For example, the Piccolo-17 fight, not as legendary as the SSJ Goku-Freeza battle, but was still pretty impressive. Lord Piccolo (talk) 17:47, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Tone

The article is too detailed as to how the saga develops. The tone is familiar, like:

Through the battle, Piccolo controls the upper hand. But not for long. Freeza transforms again, nearly tripling his power level, This would be the second transformation but third stage.

In bold the sentences that add nothing to the section. This part could be shortened to Although Piccolo controlled the battle, the situation changed once Freeza transformed himself. -- ReyBrujo 02:53, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Why wikify this saga in particular?

As of June 29, 2006, this article is tagged for wfycation, while no other DBZ sagas are. Does anyone know what the particular objections to this article are? (Knowing that would certainly ease the wfycation process.) Is it just that it's too long? Consider that this saga is close to double the length of most other sagas in DBZ. -- Byakuren 16:23, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

The Plot summary has 16 wikilinks in over 1700 words (rough count with regexp). I think that qualifies as needing some wikilinks. I don't mean it needs 1000, but at least wikilink terms associated with the plot, in example, "third stage", "power level", "fusion", "Kaio-ken", etc. Imagine for a second you know nothing about Dragon Ball, how are you supposed to know what a "Super Saiyan"? If the other articles are missing wikilinks, please tag them as well. -- ReyBrujo 17:29, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Excellent, I'll put in some wiki-time later... Anyting else, other than internal linking and some trimming? Thx! -- Byakuren 19:57, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Finger Beam or Death Beam?

Recently, I've noticed that, in the Freeza Saga description, "Death Beam" has been changed numerous times to "finger beam". Now, I know for the fact that Freeza's finger beam is called "Death Beam". After all, I've known of the name to be used numerous times in reference to that particular move. But why, now, has it been changed to "finger beam"? Most people call it "Death Beam", no-one calls it "finger beam". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Super Vegetto (talk • contribs) 16:19, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Frieza4f.jpg

Image:Frieza4f.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 08:34, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Requested move to Frieza Saga

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Freeza Saga → Frieza Saga — I'm not sure why this move was made, but it is incorrect. The original U.S. title of the saga is Frieza Saga — it was released by FUNimation in VHS in America as Frieza Saga, see amazon turnup. The other title seems made-up and obscure. All of the other U.S. titles by FUNi are in use (e.g., Vegeta Saga instead of Saiyan Saga, Baby Saga not Bebi Saga), etc. —Lord Sesshomaru 18:12, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

• Comment Remember to drop a note at the WikiProject Dragon Ball. Also, since you are likely to move Freeza to Frieza too, I would suggest checking that page because I remember there was a poll about this before. -- ReyBrujo 01:44, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

• Relisting. Considering the contentiousness of most renaming discussions related to the series, and the fact mentioned above that this would conflict with the article name of the character mentioned in its title, I'm not confident that this is as uncontroversial as the lack of discussion suggests. If the suggested advertising takes place, I'm confident there will be a much more clear and profitable discussion on this. Dekimasuよ! 06:42, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

• Dragon Ball task force notified. –Pomte 07:26, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Strongly Oppose. A related matter on a much wider scale then this had already been discussed and settled AGES ago. One thing that people forget is that the English Wikipedia is not exclusive to the American versions or Funimation's dub. This matter was decided a long time ago by the members of the Dragon Ball Task Force: (WP:DBZ) that we were to use the original spellings of the names as they are spelled in the Japanese version in order to avoid disputes about different English name spellings; because technically speaking, since this site is NOT exclusive to the American English or Funimation's Dub, we could rename the page SEVERAL different things: Frieza, Freezer, Furiza, or Freiza. So we decided that in order to avoid these disputes, we were to use the Japanese spellings on all the Dragon Ball pages. Therefore I believe that this is a pointless and redundant discussion. It's already been discussed and settled. --MajinVegeta 09:29, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Strongly Oppose For many of the same reasons as MajinVegeta. I would also like to point out the flaw we have with all of these "saga" articles- they are not set up to cover an arc, they are set up more to cover FUNimation DVD sets. This is silly because for a number of reasons. It keeps names inconsistent, as the editors go by what is on the DVD case. It cleaves to FUNimations disjointed ordering and numerous sub arcs. There is an entire article for the so-called Ginyu Saga that doesn't even cover the entirety of the Ginyu sub-arc. Likewise, there is a Trunks Saga article, a FUNimation made "saga" of like 5 episodes containg Trunks' introduction and the filler "learn to drive" episode. These do not require their own articles and should be merged into the main saga articles (i.e Saiyan, Freeza, Cell, Buu). As for Saiyan/Vegeta (to address the examples used in the initial post), I don't particularly care or see the point of arguing. Baby/Bebi, we use Baby for the character, so again no issue. I would point out that "Bebi" actually does turn out as "Baby" when westernized. Furiza does not. That isnt obsucurity or original research- it flat out DOES NOT. One company's repeated typo does not make it somehow correct. Unless of course you make ice in your "friezer," I really don't see how anyone can logically argue that point. Noone doubts the pun on cold-related things for the family, or that his name is a loan word from the English word freezer. Let's also keep in mind that these sub-sagas are being made obsolete as the new season box sets are released. The term season itself being dubious, as these dvds don't contain episodes comprised of any single television run. The second set ends with the last few episodes of what used to be considered the beginning of season 3 (the aforementioned Ginyu Saga), so as to include the entirety of the Ginyu Force events in the set. So there is no longer going to be a "Frieza Saga" box set in circulation. What there will be are two box sets named Dragon Ball Z: Season Two and Dragon Ball Z: Season Three.

I would also like to add that the "official English source" argument is flawed. The original story, written by Akira Toriyama, is presented through the manga. That is where these story arcs originate (except for the Garlic Jr. Saga which may or may not be best merged at the end of Freeza or beginning of Cell due to how short it is). The character's name is spelled "Freeza" there. It is spelled Freeza FUNimation's own official subtitle tracks. It is also a well known pun on the word "Freezer" as well as the correct western spelling of the romaji "Furiza" (the "u" is dropped, the "i" makes a sound like a double "e," the lack of a second "a" means the one stands alone, as opposed to becoming the actual word freezer). If I explained any of that incorrectly, feel free to correct me, but that is my understanding of it, is supported by two of the three official translations (and many reputable 3rd party source), and thus the basis for my opinion.

Or look at it this way- as I stated above, the word "freezer" was borrowed from English as the source of the character's name. Dropping the "er" for an "a" to make it slightly indirect, the word when processed in Japanese comes out Furiza. Bringing it back into english does NOT randomly change the spelling of the original english word.

Onikage725 18:07, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

• Support Frieza is the official English name, and the most commone name. Lrrr IV 05:46, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment I just want to add that there are 3 official English sources published stateside (dont know about other countries. The DVDs are the primary outlet for the dub, since it no longer airs on TV, and the DVDs contain both Frieza and Freeza, depending on version watched. The manga uses Freeza. So "Freeza" is not unofficial or non-english, as if one was suggesting "Furiza" or "Freezer." Likewise, Frieza and Freeza are spoken the same way, so we are not debating a different name, but rather proper spelling. I'd like to see that reflected more in these debates. We aren't debating two entirely different names. We are debating which is the better of the two official English romanizations of the name. One of the reasons I prefer the spelling we use now is because Furiza is a loan of the english word "freeze," which should not be re-westernized as "ie." I believe Japanese for freeze is tou or gyou, right? Furiza comes from Furizu, which is Japanicized "Freeze." There is no "I" in the English equivolent. Onikage725 15:39, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

• Support This is the official title of the saga by FUNimation. - A Link to the Past (talk) 22:10, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment FUNimation also tells us officially that Gohan's Masenko and Piccolo's Bakurikimaha are the same attack. Since when do we ignore correct information just because Gen Fukanaga said so? Is he a higher authority on Dragon Ball simply because Toriyama's native language is different?Onikage725 01:18, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
    • This is NOT about Japan vs. English and it never WILL be. It's about the reader. Who is helped by using the Japanese name? Frieza is what people know the character as. - A Link to the Past (talk) 05:13, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
      • Who are "people?" Freeza is just as official, and the more accurate transliteration. Everyone is hlped because it is correct. The FUNimation dub is widely known to be inconsistent and and innnaccurate. Chris Sabat has even gone on record as describing it as "their version" and being intentionally different. If anything, we should have a seperate article for Dragon Ball the manga series and anime adaptation, and one for the US dub (like the Sailor Moon pages have).Onikage725 08:52, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
        • Will you quit making this a war against the dub? The dub is what readers are most familiar to, and nothing suggests that it's for their convenience to not use it. - A Link to the Past (talk) 19:08, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
          • I'm not making war on anything. I'm trying to present correct information on the manga series Dragon Ball and its anime adaptation. The various English localizations are inconsistent and have made alterations to the original story (and later reversed some of them withint their own adapatation). You're going to have a hard time convincing me that anyone reaching the Freeza article will be struck numb with confusion due to the lack of an "i" when the anime wikiproject has Rei Hino, Ami Mizuno, and Makoto Kino listed as articles to reach GA status (as opposed to Raye, Amy, and Lita). As stated on the wikiproject page "The following articles reached Good Article status and should be used as references for work on other articles in order to bring them up to GA level." Generally when one says Dragon Ball + Wikipedia, people scoff, so it's maybe possible we should be looking for precedents set by some of these other articles. Onikage725 16:32, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
• Comment I don't think that is a good idea. There is only one known Sailor Moon English dub, far as I know, there are several English dubs for Dragon Ball — could be a disaster to include dub inconsistencies. To the user A Link to the Past, if you can get much more people to support you on the name moves (to like Frieza and Goku) then there can be a change — one person alone can not make a difference whatsoever. Lord Sesshomaru
  • Actually there are three to my knowledge- A Saban version that never really got off the ground, DiC, and Cloverway. Their section also covers all English adaptations, including the manga, so it could be a convenient way for us to address the small handful of Viz's changes if we followed suit. Considering that a number of Sailor Moon articles have reached GA status and Dragon Ball is pretty much the laughing stock of the wiki-world, I think we could do worse for a role model. Onikage725 16:32, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
• Oppose I'll say oppose, but only because I've been saying for ages that every one of the Saga articles need to be drastically restructured from the ground up. With all of the cruft witch hunting going on (just recently the friggin attack list article was trashed, and Muten and Bulma's articles were fought tooth and nail for merging) I'm amazed more people aren't raising a stink over this. These pages should not be based on soon-to-be out of print U.S. merchandise (the old VHS and DVDs). They should be straight saga pages, ones that conform to the naming conventions set down in all the other DBZ related articles, and ones that don't prescribe to FUNimation's ridiculous saga naming conventions. A whole article on the five episode "Trunks saga" or the seven episode "Captain Ginyu saga" is cruft, pure and simple. This "saga sub-dividing" never existed before these DVD releases, have only existed FOR these DVDs, and pretty soon these DVDs will be out of print in favor of the recent season box sets anyway. There's no reason for the saga pages to exist as they are, and putting Freeza back to Frieza certainly won't help things. Reading the rationales by some of the supporters, this seems like a call to keep the saga articles to remain in tandem with these DVDs, something which makes little to no sense for the reasons already stated. Fuad Ramses 16:55, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
  • WP:ANIME says to use the most common English name. - A Link to the Past (talk) 17:48, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. --Stemonitis 07:02, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Deletion

Why has this been repeatedly deleted and left with just a simple paragraph that says very little? DBZROCKS claims that it was just 'crappy text' that 'will be rewritten' but surely it would be better to edit what's already there so that the article actually gives remotely useful information in the meantime. Maybe the old text was 'crufty' but at least it did what wikipedia is supposed to do: give detailed information on a topic, which the article in its current state does not. ::..SMI..:: 23:14, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

This kind of information is not what wikipedia is about. If you look at that wall of text you can see that it suffers from a bloated and poorly written plot summary, excess information on Funimation dub tapes and the information is restated in every article. None of this could be edited from its current form which is why it is much simpliar to just get rid of it all and start anew. DBZROCKSIts over 9000!!! 23:23, 24 October 2007 (UTC)