Talk:Pub names

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Heraldry and vexillology

Pub names is within the scope of the Heraldry and vexillology WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of heraldry and vexillology. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.Heraldry and vexillologyWikipedia:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillologyTemplate:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillologyheraldry and vexillology articles

Beer: Pubs Mid‑importance

	Beer portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Beer, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Beer, Brewery, and Pub related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BeerWikipedia:WikiProject BeerTemplate:WikiProject BeerBeer articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is within the scope of the Pub task force, a task force which is currently considered to be inactive.

Blue Pig, Telford listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Blue Pig, Telford. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 13:04, 31 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Horse and Jockey Inn listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Horse and Jockey Inn. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you have not already done so. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 13:04, 31 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion at Talk:Silent Woman (disambiguation)#Requested move 31 August 2018

You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Silent Woman (disambiguation)#Requested move 31 August 2018. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 15:55, 31 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 31 August 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (page mover nac) The editor whose username is Z0 09:29, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Pub names → Pub names in the United Kingdom – This article's scope is clearly only about United Kingdom pubs, which is also stated in the first line of the lead. I was reading the article searching for information on other countries only to read it all and find out the scope was just that. Per WP:PRECISE, the title should define its scope. Gonnym (talk) 20:56, 31 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Unnecessary disambiguation. There are no other "Pub names" articles. — bieχχ (talk) 22:00, 31 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. What would The Pub Landlord say?!(...but really as per — bieχχ, sorry). Martinevans123 (talk) 22:09, 31 August 2018 (UTC) [1][reply]
Comment Why don't we just add content for other countries. Crouch, Swale (talk) 07:45, 1 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- That's also ok, but then you'd have WP:WEIGHT issues for one country. --Gonnym (talk) 08:43, 1 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, as above, no disambiguation is required. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:47, 1 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Just a comment to everyone committing on disambiguation, this isn't a disambiguation request, but clarifying the scope as the current title causes WP:ASTONISH as one thinks this is about Pub names in all countries, when in-fact this is only limited to the UK. Funny enough, I did find a non-UK entry while trying to do a search through the revision history, and it was Chiswick Chap who removed it [2], so if non-UK entries are not welcomed in this article, the article should be titled as such. --Gonnym (talk) 08:43, 1 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I understand your thinking, however, if it were to be named "Pub names in the United Kingdom" that would engender an astonish when people looked for and didn't find articles on pubs names in other countries. Pub names is a sub-article of Pub (Pub#Names) which explains that a pub is a mainly British establishment. Drinking establishments in other countries tend to have a different composition and culture and a different naming system which appear not to be as historical, notable or interesting as British pub names. When there are pubs in other countries they are following the British tradition, including that of the British pub name. There may be room for an article on "Bar names in the United States" if there are sufficient reliable sources to indicate notability - and that would be a more likely topic for an article than "Pub names in the United States". Pub names in United States would be more likely a sentence or two within the Pub names article rather than something standalone. SilkTork (talk) 21:06, 1 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Ah yes, cultural values at stake here. Martinevans123 (talk) 21:24, 1 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed the phrase "in the United Kingdom" from the lead sentence. This was a recent addition, and was no doubt well intentioned, but it does tend to limit the article to pub names in the UK, which would change the focus of the topic. SilkTork (talk) 22:16, 1 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If the scope is not UK-only anymore then there is no need for the move so I withdrawn the request. --Gonnym (talk) 06:26, 2 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If you are withdrawing, in view of the fact there is little controversy or dispute here, I think you could just do a self-close if you wanted to? Martinevans123 (talk) 08:58, 2 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have no idea how to do that... --Gonnym (talk) 10:05, 2 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's quite easy. But maybe there's some value in leaving it open for a few more days, in case someone dreams up a giant filibuster super-vote over something, or just wants to make a new point or observation? Thanks for your understanding here. Martinevans123 (talk) 10:18, 2 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

All the names in the page seem to be in Britain. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 04:41, 4 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The George?

No mention of that familiar name. Which George was it, usually? Valetude (talk) 07:13, 6 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Prancing Pony

Research by the Tolkien Society indicates that the Bell Inn in Moreton-in-Marsh inspirrf the Prancing Pony.

That's all very well I'm sure, but this article is about names. Deleting with mild regret. —Tamfang (talk) 21:41, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Trivia

This "curiosities" section is nothing short of WP:TRIVIA, so I've posted it here in case any fancies working it back into the article in an appropriate fashion. MIDI (talk) 09:24, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

==Curiosities==
The pubs with the shortest and longest names in Britain are both in [[Stalybridge]]: ''Q'' and ''The Old Thirteenth Cheshire Astley Volunteer Rifleman Corps Inn''.<ref>{{cite news |last1=Wolfe-Robinson |first1=Maya |title=Pub with longest name in UK reopens next to pub with shortest |url=https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/16/pub-longest-name-uk-reopens-next-pub-shortest-stalybridge-rifleman-q |accessdate=5 September 2020 |work=[[The Guardian]] |date=16 June 2019}}</ref> The longest name of a London pub, ''I am the Only Running Footman'',<ref>{{cite web |title=I am the Only Running Footman |url=https://www.diffordsguide.com/pubs-and-bars/1588/london/the-only-running-footman-pub |website=Difford's Guide |accessdate=5 September 2020}}</ref> was used as the title of a [[mystery novel]] by [[Martha Grimes]].<ref name="Grimes 1987">{{cite book | last=Grimes | first=Martha | title=I am the only running footman | publisher=Headline | publication-place=London | year=1987 | isbn=978-0-7472-3103-5 | oclc=32016323 | page=Title page}}</ref>

There is a "pub with no name" in Southover Street, [[Brighton]].,<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.tripadvisor.com.au/Restaurant_Review-g186273-d3722852-Reviews-Pub_With_No_Name-Brighton_East_Sussex_England.html|title=The Southover|work=tripadvisor.com.au}}</ref> and another near to [[Petersfield, Hampshire]], so known (despite having an actual name), because its sign on the nearest main road has been missing for many years.<ref>https://www.whitehorsepetersfield.co.uk/</ref>

The Salley Pussey's Inn at [[Royal Wootton Bassett]] is said to have been named after Sarah Purse, whose family owned The Wheatsheaf pub in the 19th century. In the 1970s the name was changed to the Salley Pussey's.<ref>{{cite web |last1=Marshman |first1=Mike<!--County Local Studies Librarian--> |title=Sarah Purse becomes Sally Pussey |url=http://www.wshc.eu/blog/item/sarah-purse-becomes-sally-pussey.html |publisher=Wiltshire & Swindon History Centre |date=25 February 2014}}</ref>

Are you saying it's "trivia" because it's poorly sourced? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 09:32, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's certainly not the usual sort of trivia ("featured in the 17th episode of such-and-such-a-soap"). I'd have said it was both directly relevant to the article and actually quite well sourced, so why don't we just return it. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:55, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've cited all the uncited portions. It's going back in now. Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:01, 5 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

how do we add a redirect discussion thing?

I was hopping on here to ask where Cross Fox(es) is on the page, as A/ I know it to be the name of at least one establishment which is almost certainly a historic coaching inn, and B/ the page for "Cross Fox" (which I was visiting for other reasons) redirects here, but C/ there's no mention of that name or animal anywhere on this article. There's other "cross" things (particularly keys), and other mentions of "fox", but not that combination. Seems either like a spurious redirect or something that needs to be added into the article along with all the other various animal names, which may be worth discussing. But how to do, especially as a mere IP-user? 92.7.50.9 (talk) 14:27, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Edit: Ah, nevermind. It seemed quicker, easier, and more logical/justifiable to simply add a sentence about it as a less obvious and non-heraldic example of a "colour + animal" name, in place of some other things that were moved out of the same paragraph into the bulleted list. It flows better and makes more descriptive sense, has citation for most of what I wrote via the existing Wiki page (and its backlink to here), and beyond that it takes only the time to type "cross foxes inn" into your search bar to have instant verification of the rest ... I don't really know how to cite something that is self evident on a level of "grass tends to be green", "birds make noises", etc. Maybe there's a book that covers it? I've never had a need to bother obtaining or reading one because the data is just kinda... there, for immediate public access, rather than something you have to put effort into tracking down. 92.7.50.9 (talk) 14:51, 8 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

tinctures

Five common colours (heraldic tinctures) are gules (red); sable (black); azure (blue); vert (green); and purpure (purple). The metals are or (gold) and argent (silver), although in practice they are usually depicted as yellow and white.

I question the need to mention tinctures at all, unless there's a pub called the Azure Leopard. —Tamfang (talk) 05:03, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well the discussion that introduces the section reads as almost pure editorial so I've removed it. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:19, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Pig & Whistle

Pig and Whistle: a corruption of the Anglo-Saxon saying piggin wassail meaning "good health".

I have seen it translated – somewhere or other – as "[the] Virgin's blessing". —Tamfang (talk) 06:55, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What we're missing there is what has bedevilled the article all along, citations. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:20, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

sigh, i used to have a book or two on the subject … —Tamfang (talk) 22:23, 17 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Know the feeling. Like junk, old books become useful the day after they're chucked out. Chiswick Chap (talk) 03:45, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sayers 2012 thinks the wassail connection fanciful, and explores other etymologies. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:47, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Would it be possible to rename this page English Pub Names?

Would it be possible to rename this page English Pub Names? after all, the pubs listed in this page are uniquely english.

It means Pub Names from other countries would be posted in this page due to its ambiguity. relabelling this page English Pub Names would set a precedent for Australian Pub Names, New Zealand Pub Names, etc. DaveBP71 (talk) 01:40, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It seems a wrong step unless we first have the other articles you name, and possibly not even then; if there is little to say about them, they can have short sections at the end here, while if they are largely derivative they will add little. If the articles are written, we can simply add short summaries with 'main' links. So a renaming is at best premature, and quite likely wholly unnecessary. Chiswick Chap (talk) 05:14, 2 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]