Talk:Hypnic jerk

Question about phrasing.

Do "subjects who have successfully deprived themselves of sleep for longer than 24 hours" actually experience more hypnic jerks than those who are just "sleep-deprived for longer than 24 hours"? I'm wondering if this particular wording is relevant. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.108.81.97 (talk) 10:46, 20 January 2007 (UTC).

I agree. The word "successfully" is unnecessary in that sentence. I'll change it. M. Frederick 13:58, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Hmm

Well this is pretty normal, it's not a sleep disorder. I had read once long ago that at some point at the moment you are about to fall asleep, your brain for some reason decides to either fall into sleep, or to sort of abort the whole thing. When it decides to abort, the nerves leading down to your legs all fire simultaneously, causing a twitch powerful enough to wake you up; originating from your legs. This article mentions nothing about that, and I am now wondering if the original article turned out to be incorrect, or if the Wiki article is just inadequate. --24.199.103.240 20:49, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Source it, add it as another hypothesis. 213.1.30.167 19:48, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I would love to but unfortunately I don't remember where I read it! If anybody recalls ever seeing an article or other information like this, I'll work it in. Sorry... --24.199.103.240 15:48, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I've heard it too.. got no source. I remember it as it's your brain shutting off your limbs to prepare for REM sleep, so you dont go running and throwing arms while you dream. BTW, I only get the "jerk" when REALLY tired and going to sleep. On airplanes, or after a really busy day. sorry. no source, another anecdote for the talk page :) --Kvuo 06:46, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm familiar with two hypotheses regarding (physiologic) hypnagogic myoclonus. One is similar to what you mentioned: it is the misfiring of nerves in the periphery in response to your brain's transition to a sleeping state. Think of it as trying to switch drivers in a car that is slowing down, and the car "jerking" while the new driver is settling in. The other hypothesis is that it is a reflex in response to a sudden relaxation of the legs and arms. From an evolutionary point of view, you can imagine how this may be protective against falling out of a tree, for example. (The movement is a flexing movement where you draw your limbs inward, so I presume that this reflex would help you grab onto a tree branch or something.) I am not sure there is definitive evidence for either theory, however.172.6.83.34 (talk) 10:38, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

This may be a good place to start. Vetrugno, R., F. Provini, and P. Montagna. "Isolated motor phenomena and symptoms of sleep." Handbook of clinical neurology/edited by PJ Vinken and GW Bruyn 99 (2011): 883.172.6.83.34 (talk) 10:38, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

You're right. It's not a sleep disorder; but both a natural and necessary process. It's you undergoing simulation training for mobility, agility, reaction speed, navigation, particularly in the early phases while sleep paralysis is shut off. I can remain fully aware while passing into different phases of sleep and have observed and studied the phenomenon in some depth. Typical actions include running over rough terrain at high speed and tripping on a sudden unexpected obstacle, running up or down the stairs and tripping or getting caught on one of the stairs. Other actions may involve slipping and falling, or reacting to sudden events. I don't have any references (other than myself), but I'm sure there has to be studies out there where they wake up the person *immediately* after a hypnic jerk to try and get a first-hand read on what was going on. Such studies will confirm the account I described here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.29.226.169 (talk) 07:38, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

This isn't an edit, but the apes falling out a tree theory is dumb. Dogs have hypnic jerks too. How many species of dog nest in trees? Fishgibblets (talk) 06:27, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

So, wait...

Is this when you're just dreaming, and, like, you see a tree branch leaning down, it hits you, you jerk, you wake up? I'm confused, my head hurts and I'm hungry.--Editor510 ^{drop us a line, mate} 08:33, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes. I'm quite sure I am asleep always when this happens. One time, I had a dream of playing football, until I suddendly stumbled on a ball and woke up. But I didn't actually see the dream, I felt it.Troodonraptor (talk) 19:03, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

I've imagined or dreamt (although I don't have a good visual imagination, and it was much more vivid than usual) a soccer ball flying at me, and I tried to dodge it. >.> MichaelExe (talk) 16:03, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

It happens to me most often when I'm dreaming about either hitting someone or being hit by somoene. My arms usually jerk in a reflex. It happens with my legs in more random scenarios such as running or jumping but for some reason I guess dreams/day dreams of conflict startle my reflexes. The odd thing is that it is usually a reaction to a dream, not just a random twich (though I do get those too). Lime in the Coconut 20:56, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Other hallucinations during a hypnic jerk?

Can there be other hallucinations during this event? like visual hallucinations?

i swear that one time when i was in school, i was very sleepy and all of a sudden some gray-scale picture appeared, taking my entire vision, than zoomed in to a corner, and disappeared, without leaving a single trace. it didn't even fade out. it just disappeared.

i jerked during the event. --Peacock486 (talk) 13:18, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Occurrence

The article states (with no reference) "Hypnic jerks are usually felt once or twice per night." I don't know what kind of sleep the writer of that quote has but I certainly do not feel hypnic jerks more than occasionally. Is that meant to mean once or twice per night for people suffering with a sleeping disorder associated with hypnic jerks? McLerristarr | Mclay1 07:32, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

You make a good point that this article should make a distinction between physiological involuntary muscle movements that happen in normal sleep and pathological muscle movements that are associated with neurological disorders.172.6.83.34 (talk) 10:12, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

I never have more than one a night and then only occasionally. I have them at times when I'm physically tired but still mentally quite awake. I sometimes catch the state I'm in where I know I'm going to have one before it happens. My body is relaxing but my mind is going 19 to the dozen, all sorts of thoughts swirling around which won't cease even though I try to get them to. This is alluded to in the article, the brain getting confused between the body's muscular relaxation and its own still high level of activity and trying to shake the muscles awake. I never experience a sense of falling though. It's a very unpleasant sensation, like being really made to jump by some unexpected stimulus Martyn Smith (talk) 23:54, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

Physiological myoclonus and fasciculations occur in normal people at sleep onset and during REM sleep, and can often happen without the person being aware. However, I agree that the sentence is poorly worded since it uses the word "felt", implying that people are aware of the so-called jerks. I believe this sentence has already been edited with a citation regarding the frequency of "jerks" during sleep.172.6.83.34 (talk) 10:12, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

Snippets from two sections of the article:

"an involuntary twitch which occurs just as a person is beginning to fall asleep"

"According to a study on sleep disturbances in the Journal of Neural Transmission, a hypnic jerk occurs during the non-rapid eye movement sleep cycle"

The definition in the Atlas of Epilepsies seems to cover all bases:

"They occur at sleep onset, during drowsiness, and in lighter stages of sleep."

However the description in the Journal of Neural Transmission accords more with "occurring at the transition between wakefulness and sleep" as described in the Contemporary Sleep Medicine for Physicians.

What is their expected frequency in the population? Could not locate any definitive results other than cited, but FWIW my experience has it about once every 2 or three months- perhaps longer. Certainly not the 1.. 7 per hour as the article suggests- again research data is lacking. Lmstearn (talk) 10:12, 2 November 2017 (UTC)

Inception stuff

What does being awakened by a disturbance have to do with hypnic jerks? The whole point is that the hypnic jerk is spontaneously generated by the brain without external stimulus. In the film Inception, what's happening is an external stimulus (external relative to the dream layer) is bringing the dreamer out of sleep or a lower level dream state. Please provide a reference that equates a hypnic jerk with dropping a sleeping person into a bathtub if you care to argue this, but this bit about Inception is based on a complete misunderstanding of both the film and hypnic jerks. Tarchon (talk) 05:38, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

68.52.163.120 - when you removed my addition to the film comments, were you objecting that it was not a proven fact the the film is a work of fiction? You film buffs need to get a life. It is a movie - it has nothing to do with reality, and Christopher Nolan's use of terms that he doesn't understand to fluff up his dialog does not belong in an encyclopedia. Get a real user ID if you want to contribute too, instead of hiding behind some anonymous IP number. Tarchon (talk) 18:51, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps you'd like to read up on our policy on personal attacks. And it's anyone's right to edit "anonymously", you shouldn't consider people's contributions as lesser or invalid just because they haven't logged in. Rehevkor ✉ 19:09, 11 January 2011 (UTC)

The dialogue of the movie calls those disturbances "kicks", not "jerks" or "hypnic jerks". The source of the disturbance is different: external for a kick, internal for a hypnic jerk. The moment when the disturbance occurs is different: during a dream for the kick, while falling asleep for a jerk. Given these objections, I'll remove the Inception section unless someone can provide a citation. If Christopher Nolan or someone else involved in the making of the movie called them "Hypnic jerks" in an interview / website / DVD commentary, then their remarks (however misinformed) should be enough to let the section survive. Rizzardi (talk) 10:22, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

LOL at this conversation. 108.18.122.226 (talk) 11:29, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Parkinson's bit relevant?

I just changed the sentence about Parkinson's to reflect what the source actually says (namely, that it's about Parkinson's victims, not about the general populace, as the previous version would let one believe). Now that it's accurate, is it really relevant enough to retain in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.24.14.43 (talk) 05:50, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

I was curious about the citation myself, but having looked at it, the paper is clearly talking about the general populace with regard to those numbers. The relevant sentence is in the Introduction section of the paper, where the author gives a brief overview of normal sleep. Here is the paragraph: "During sleep, motor activity is present under the classical two states of relaxation and contraction at an unconscious level. In NonREM sleep relaxation is characterized by a regressive gradient muscle tone, paralleling the deepness of sleep, randomally[sic] populated by isolated motor unit potentials. The NonREM sleep muscle contractions consist in hypnic jerks mostly at the onset of sleep and postural shifts at stage changes. The hypnic jerk consists in a abrupt muscle action flexing movement, generalized or partial and asymmetric, which may cause arousal, with an illusion of falling. Electromyographically it displays complexes of 250 msec. in various skeletal muscles, predominantly in the limbs. The postural shifts at stage changes involve multiple skeletal muscles. They are more frequent in childhood 4,7/hour at the age 8 to 12 years old, decreasing toward 2,1/hour at 65–80 years old." The preceding statements are consistent with a description of normal sleep, so taken into context, this is not a description of sleep in patients with PD, but rather a description of what happens in normal sleep. However, the author does not cite a specific paper for this statement. One can only assume that his remarks are backed up by one or more of the numerous references given at the end of the paper. 172.6.83.34 (talk) 09:55, 26 February 2013 (UTC)

I would also like to see any information or studies on the "hypnic jerk" and if it is related to restless leg syndrome and patients with restless leg syndrome. Since this article talked about certain causes such as anxiety, caffeine, stress, and restless leg syndrome is more prevalent in people with low iron levels, diabetes, women who are pregnant, and people taking specific medications, I wonder if there is any correlation of severity of hypnic jerks in patients who fall asleep but are woken by the itchy and crawling sensation of RLS. Amykchristensen (talk) 04:27, 1 April 2014 (UTC)